Posts by zen nudist

18

what is the first lie in the bible and who told it?

by zen nudist in

gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

gen 3:4 and the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die: [from eating of the tree].

gen 3:5 for god doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

zen nudist

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: [from eating of the tree]
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

most people ASSume the serpent was the one who lied, but did it? what did the serpent say which was a lie? the obvious answer that many give is that he claimed that Adam and Eve would not Die and they did die...case closed. however, is that all there is to it? in Context the serpent did not say they would never die for any reason at all, just for one reason, eating of the tree... was he lying? did the "eating" from the tree cause Adam to die? the answer is NO... he ate of the tree and God confesses that he could STILL live forever unless God took steps to prevent it...which he does.... so the CAUSE of death has nothing to do with eating of any tree.

may claim the serpent lied about man becoming like God...was that a lie? NO, God confirms that.

so what is the only lie in this story ? I see it as God telling Adam that the tree of knowledge had anything to do with killing him. that turned out to be anything but true. Adam did not die because of it, he died of old age, because God prevented him from eating of the tree of life knowing that Adam could still live forever... the actual cause of death appears to be disobediance which did not have to be related to the tree of knowledge at all... and further it seems odd that it should be a reason to kill Adam at all, as he did not know good and evil prior to eating of the tree... after all disobediance is a moral thing, a bad or evil thing which Adam had no way to know prior to eating, right?

125

Is the Bible Just B.S.?

by shamus in

do you think that god enjoys killing people?

it sure sounds like it to me; jw doctrine more or less scared me into thinking that god is going to kill all persons whom he/she thinks is not doing his will.

my question is, how can god kill someone for not being "christian", or following the bible out of sheer ignorance?

zen nudist

Shepherds are predators who fool sheep into a false sense of security and then fleece and slaughter the sheep for their own benefit. the bible is an instruction manual for shepherds and sheep, tells each one how to play their roles and exposes those who can think for themselves and rock the boat as enemies to be shunned and murdered...its not that complicated, its all about CONtrol by CONfident people who are very CONvincing to those who desire to be CONviNcED.

Hypnosis is not like you see on stage shows, its really just about allowing others to do your thinking for you....if they are CONvincing enough, they can even cause you to hallucinate and distort your perceptions of reality... People wonder how the great pyramids were built, what sort of technology was used... if the skeptics are correct, there was nothing fabulously high tech about it...just a lot of man power with a common cause.... but if that is so, the greatest secret in the world was founded at that time, mental techniques for getting that man power to act in unison...that is where all secret societies and mysteries get their "magick" some of these mental techniques may be very carefully guarded secrets, but I suspect that it has always been hiding in plain sight.

7

COMMA JOHANNEUM(1 JOHN 5;7)

by badboy in

.

`this phrase,which evidently was inserted several centuries after john wrote the letter'.. this was in the latest wt april 15 or was it the awake!.

i understand that the comma johanneum wasn't in manuscripts prior to the 16th century.. the wt obviously doesn't check it facts..

zen nudist

what I find amazing is that this verse is used by trinitarians as a proof for the trinity, and JWs attack it only as an inserted text...but if anyone bothers to READ it, they will see that it says nothing about the trinity at all....the insertion says there are three who bare witness in heaven, the Father, the Word and the spirit, and these three are one.trinitarians say, SEE three are one, that proves the trinity..... but what is the context, what are they ONE in?the context is obvious, they are ONE in the WITNESS they bare, not in being God...as the parallel that there are three on earth who agree in one.....and what is it that these three in heaven and three on earth all agree about? John tells us that it is about Jesus being the son of God.

so even if this verse is valid and not a spurious addition, it poses no threat to non-trinitarians.

25

"Because They're A Cult"........

by minimus in

jw
friends

yesterday, a business associate asked me why jws would not celebrate a birthday, a bar mitzvah, or any other holiday.

he asked why they literally believed only 144,000 go to heaven.

he asked how they could celebrate everything 1 year and the next year, tell their families that everything is pagan........my answer to all of his questions, were "it's because they're a cult.

zen nudist

while I was a JW, I took comfort from the fact that by most cult definitions used by psychologists and others, Jesus and his band of merry men were also a cult... most people refuse to see this. now as a non JW and non christian, I do not put blinders on just because Jesus was supposedly involved.

assuming Jesus was a real person [which I no longer do], he seems no different from any other cult leader....

he demanded absolute obediance, above all family and friends [luke 14:26]

he claimed that he was the ONE and ONLY way to GOD

he warned that anyone not wanting him as King would be killed [luke 19:27]

there was no middle ground, you were either one of his sheep [to be fleeced and slaughtered?] or a goat.

you were wheat or weeds....

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

zen nudist

Exodus 20:7: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

calling someone MY LORD has nothing to with ex 20, which does not say Adon or Adonai in hebrew but YHWH or Jehovah and using that name in vain is what the commandment forbids... the term lord is used as a common term of respect to kings, gentlemen, property owners etc... just as it is today, and is equivelant to Master or Mr as a title.a major point, you still ignore is that you have never responded to my 3 witnesses from heaven. Daniel saw the ANCIENT of DAYS and the son of MAN, Stephen saw Jesus at the right hand of God and John saw the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY and the lamb.... all three witnesses see the very same thing as far as I can tell, ONE who is GOD and one who is NOT....they never confuse this... so no matter how many ambiguous and out of context verses you throw at me, you have nothing until you deal with the statement of the witnesses who claimed to see the heavenly reality.

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

zen nudist

what is wrong with this view:

once a person is "saved" and in dwelt by the holy spirit to be in the position of being saved from whatever....

he is now where Adam was, a perfected man... and as such can now make a willful decision to stay that way or not, as Adam

could? Would not this fit with all known verses that seem to conflict?

no one can take this away from the man, but himself if he choses NOT to want it any longer.... after all, what is the point of calling salvation a free gift it is really a chain around ones neck that cannot be broken and no real choice was ever involved?

it would also make sense of Paul's statements that even though he had the calling, he still ran it as a race to the finish, so that what was being offered to him would infact one day be his.

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

zen nudist

Do you really believe that, or are you just trying to work up an apologetic for your perspective?

of course not, I could care less if the trinity is biblical or not, its just a mental puzzle for me, one which I find trinitarians to be very dishonest about...notice I gave three witness from heaven earlier, three visions which all show the same exact thing and no trinitarian touched it... I have called my witnesses, challenge their veracity or accept their testimony, which is it?

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

zen nudist

Why did the Jews want to stone Jesus?
Blashemy, " you a man make yourself equal with God.

yes, this is true, however what trinitarians fail to see, is that in each and every instance Jesus follows up their accusation with something to show that he is without guilt in this regard.... after all, he would be violating the first commandment if he actually were claiming to be God falsely, right? you shall have no other gods before me.... so unless he really were God, any statement claiming god-ship would be rightly a crime worthy of death under the law of Moses....

yet if you read each and every instance, Jesus NEVER tells the, I am not blaspheming, because in actuality I am GOD...but quite the opposite, he tells them that he has never made such a claim in John 10...showing that the law calls judges like his, gods, and rightly pointing out if that were blaspheme, they were the guilty ones, while continuing, he says, but I have only said I am God's son, which is no crime at all. in John 5, after similar accusation, Jesus points out that he did not have life of himself, but God GRANTED him to have it.... when he is accused of having the power to forgive sins, which they FALSELY conclude only God can do....he points out to them that God GAVE him that authority, and futher, later on, we find that Jesus gave that authority to his own disciples, giving them the power to heal as he had done...and no one says that makes the disciples God.....

show me one place where jesus was accused of being God and he turns to them and says, well of course, because I am GOD.

just one will do.

34

life after death

by Sookie in

i'm new to this forum and was born and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses.

my family left the religion when i was around 15-years-old.

i am now in my late 20s.

zen nudist

Honesty is what has helped me.... no one knows what happens to you after you die, why not just accept that? there are many uncertainties in life, each move we make is a gamble to some degree and what happens after the curtain falls cannot be verified by any means other than self deceptions.

Faith after all, is but a gamble on a rumor despite the evidences present....

I find I cannot respect a god who demand I lie to myself...if I don't know, why damn me for being honest about it?

JWs and others try to force you to accept a myth, legend, rumor, and cleverly convoluted logic as proof and to make you claim, because of this that you KNOW and are now accountable...

Paul says, by all things of creation we KNOW there is a god and have no excuse.... I say he is full of $#!+ and a con artist, first of all conning himself and then others because he held strong CONvictions.

here is a simple thing...if someone presents their belief as FACT, unless they can tell you a way to verify it yourself which does not involve you using self-hypnosis, like telling yourself something is real when you have no evidence that it is... they are in essence lying to you....

it seems that much confusion, including yours, comes from thinking you should KNOW the answer and cannot find it...when the reality seems that some questions cannot be answered without lies and self deceptions.

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

zen nudist

But what about the Apostle Thomas' confession to Jesus?
John 20:28: And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Why should Peter's statement be more important than Thomas' statement?
Look at Jesus' response to Thomas' statement:
John 20:29: Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

First of all, trinitarians have used this as a proof text that Thomas saw Jesus as god...when in reality it is no such thing.... if Jesus appeared infront of me and I "exclaimed" my lord and my god...it would not mean I was calling Jesus that, but it is a "common" expression of excitement and shock.... to use such as "proof" that Jesus is God, is to me, very silly, especially considering how Jesus had Just told Mary, that his God was OUR God, and his Father was OUR FATHER.... Jesus consistantly presented himself as our "brother" not our God...one of us... as Paul said, there is ONE who is mediator between GOD and MAN, the MAN, Jesus --notice that was AFTER he supposedly died and rose from the dead.... to take exclamations of suprize as proof texts seems, well, just desperate.